http://www.msi-dsl.com/_images/item_graphics/sigma-1.jpg Ignoring the obvious propaganda aspects (and embarrassment at the whole production), it does give a rather interesting look at how the 76mm works. The point of these larger caliber replacement weapons is that older autocannon are optomised for high velocity armour piercing ammunition. Air Force laboratory personnel conceived the cased telescoped ammunition concept in 1954. When it devolves to name calling and ad hominiem attacks, it is obvious that the argument is going nowhere. The point detonating nature can penetrate 210mm of reinforced concrete at 1,500m. This comes at a cost however, the CTAS is expensive (regardless of arguments about cost per stored kill) and unless others purchase it, only in service in relatively small numbers. One advantage it has is the increased payload for specialised rounds over similar sized 30mm weapon systems. This is usually for “advance to objective” where the vehicles are on overwatch while the dismounted element moves into a village/fortified area etc. The issue is ammo manufacturing techniques to reduce unit cost and maximising the output of each production line (2 day weeks are not cost effective). Or the old Gyrojet weapons of Buck Rogers fame. That is different to saying vehicles can’t carry a full section, which they demonstrably can. The IDF learned this the hard way when their pure tank force tried to rush Sagger teams in the past. "Cased Telescoped Ammunition and Gun Technology. I ALWAYS forget to add the footnote; from my previous post: The use of this weapon on RN ships seems like a no brainer same with the Rapidfire anti air system. Same cannon, different subsystems. 40 mm Cased telescoped cannon > Light, low intrusion Cannon to be integrated in a turret. It’s wasteful to spend much time and funds on that little technical progress. It’s an entirely possible and has been done very successfully. Sounds ridiculous? I think it was SO who said that losing 30% of the dismounts, for autocannons, in an all-arms mech formation is not a good deal. I would give priority to the number of dismounts carried over firepower, with 8 the optimum number. ); it is the sights and the integration of everything. Not too worried about numbers not matching a section, when you dismount for an assault, the dismounted element would consolidate as a platoon and shake out into their normal sections/squads anyway when they do the last minute briefing. Although as pointed out its gun is far closer to RARDEN in installation than a modern autocannon (it is clip loaded manually and IIRC mounted upside down in order to fit into the turret). The platoon can manoeuvre in two parts, namely sections, in mounted combat, both the Pl. The RMs are afaik even worse-prepared against UAVs. MRAPs and the 8×8 AFVs have different compromise between protection, mobility and firepower, but still a sub-category of APCs. And yet they have only managed to fit 42 rounds to the manned turret(warrior? You have a pretty peculiar definition of what massive means then…..honestly, it just looks big from the outside because of all the extra armor, storage boxes and the large turret bustle. The tank detachment commander must of been mortified :-) But a lesson learnt no doubt , lots of suppressive MG fire and “where’s the bloody infantry?”. In response to the MoD’s requirements, industry had bid for both cannon and turret. the BAESystems brochure for CV90 claims 3 crew plus 7 dismounts. It has also been … The 40mm Cased Telescoped Armament System (CTAS), MSS (Small) – Platform Supply Vessel Conversion, MSS (Medium) – Offshore Construction Vessel, Civilian Unmanned Airborne Systems – Threats an Opportunities, Defence Engagement, Capacity Building and Conflict Prevention, A Persistent Ground Based Surveillance Challenge, Section transport and Load Carrying (Moving Forward), Section transport and Load Carrying (History), Next Generation Light Anti-Tank Weapon (NLAW), Storm Shadow Conventionally Armed Stand Off Missile (CASOM), Advanced Short Range Air to Air Missile (ASRAAM), Tomahawk Land Attack Cruise Missile (TLAM), Guided Multiple Launch Rocket System (GMLRS), Increment 1 – Survey and Initial Operations, Increment 1 – Port Repair and Augmentation, A Summary and Final Thoughts on Increment 1, Low integration volume <80 litres total swept volume, Dispersion > <0,35 mil APFSDS > <1 mil GPR, Minimum Fatigue Safety Life 10,000 rounds, Satisfies prevailing UK MoD and French DGA safety standards, Supports ‘coincidence’ fire control solution. Pfft, one person undermining European defence. Would they have been so much worse off deploying the Stormer family of vehicles to replace CVR(T), using the same 30mm turret as the Warrior for the light tank version? OTO-Melara produced the Otomatic which was a 76mm gun mounted on a tank chassis. Just wanted to point it out to you as i know how hard it is to try and check your own work and how easy it is to miss things like that. Don’t underestimated what a stabilised medium calibre weapon with modern thermal sights and a a good fire-control system can do- its far more than you will ever get from a .50 or a 40mm GL even on a stabilized RWS. One of these featured the 40mm CTAS. The difference in barrel life between a conventional and cased telescoped ammunition gun is two orders of magnitude. Where’s the la-la dreamland that keeps coming into this discussion? First, a manually-loaded gun firing basically the same ammo has long been in service in the South African Rooikat armoured car. I can see a role for medium-weight IFVs in the current western style, but more as light cavalry, or dragoons, to take terms from the musket-era nomenclature. Hohum, – btw, platoon is the important unit in mech. Nor is it evident why patrolling ought be the answer to a drone that’s going to keep calling steel rain on you if not removed from the sky. The Swedish CV9040 has to be compared to Warrior with 30 mm RARDEN, not with a hypothetical CV90CTA40. The tactical level UAV problem is solved by better tactics (aggressive patrolling), not by new wunderguns. In any case the story is that MIV will be wheeled and few commenters here have thought a big turret atop a wheeled APC a smart move. The Swedish 40mm is not much better, the feed system is on par with RARDEN (slight exaggeration) manually loading individual rounds from a tray under the gun into a bit I couldn’t see because I was upside down and to be honest slightly hung over. The Phalanx upgrade programme, as in It doesn’t have the range to hit targets at their likely operating altitude from what I read here. If it is good enough for them why are lighter weapons mounted on a RWS not good enough. I would think that it can be viewed a number of ways. Hohum, The whole, broader comment is absolutely right, but events may force you to dismount and the “luxury” described in the quote isn’t feasible. for the per piece price of ammo, which becomes at least initially rarer than the golden hen’s teeth) and a good insurance against the next-gen BMP turning up, which they have had a habit of doing (Armata based this time around? Your facts seem more like opinions from someone else’s viewpoint, not to mention the raving conspiracy theory. Isolated tank platoons of any kind often get embarrassed. The burden of  ongoing qualification and development will fall disproportionately on France and the UK. I think it is/ was a living example of how pouring unreal money at unrealistic requirements still won’t produce anything real (as in flesh, or rather, metal). http://www.panzerbaer.de/types/bw_watr_wiesel_1_bmk_30mm-a.htm The vehicle doesn’t park-up when the dismounts engage either, it is an intrinsic part of the section and fights with the dismounts. Would those be the in-depth studies that concluded that you couldn’t build an IFV with a manned turret and a full dismount section within a reasonable size and weight budget and decided that a compromise on the number of dismounts was the appropriate decision? In order to maximise commonality, realise economies of scale and provide confidence and impetus to an export campaign. Our CT weapons and ammunition systems are offered in a 5.56 mm CT light machine gun (LMG), a 7.62 mm CT medium machine gun (MMG) and a 6.5 mm CT carbine. By the time you’ve stripped out the medic,LAW carrier, GL carrier, LMG carrier etc you have no one left from any smaller sized unit. Oct 20, 2016 - The CTA International 40mm Cased Telescoped Cannon forms part of the innovative Cased Telescoped Armament Systems that will arm British … Bradley is unique in that one vehicle can’t carry an entire section, this is because the size of the section was enlarged after the vehicle design was frozen. The weapon system is composed of the cannon and thermal sleeve, gun mount, ammunition handling system, CTAS controller and the gun aiming system. Lots of occasions where you’ll actually end up with “attached personnel”. There are no reduced sections, IFVs are designed to carry full sections (even the Bradley was designed to carry a full section they just changed the section size post design freeze). I didn’t really write about 40 mm guns. One tiny mistake i wanted to alert you to – in the final sentence in the Capabilities and System Description section the words ‘cost of the’ are repeated. Getting a fire team in, on the other hand, is perfectly possible. The Cased Telescoped Cannon is a revolutionary new medium calibre weapon system now being installed in vehicles for the British and French Armies. I wrote about getting the job done with funds and MOTS products or spending them on unnecessary development with no defence or deterrence value to show for decades. The dichotomy does exist; solutions vary There is nothing especially “Buck Rodgerish” about case telescoped ammunition. – turreted LAV =6 Either way, it’s the 2pdr again. The XM274 ARES Corp 75mm CTA gun was trialed on various platforms in the 70’s and was well liked by its testers (one of whom was a previous contributor to TD) but came to naught. The dual role of autocannon mounted combat and bus for infantry is the core of the IFV problem. Am sure I published an FOI about it a while ago, might have to dig that one that. It will be very intersting to see how MIV turns out. This means you will not get swarms of UAVs. I consider low priority targeting of a dismounts transport vehicle as a feature, not a bug. Warrior SOP was to debuss at more like 100m or closer, relying on increased armour and firepower to get the infantry onto the position. Meanwhile the Delco turret had the capacity to mount TOW missiles. Hohum, Why haven’t France and the UK gone with Super 40? The APC is clearly different from the IFV (and can deliver a whole squad in one go). This format provides significant ergonomic benefits within vehicles in the space envelope required for the gun and the ammunition storage. Not entirely true, it depends where where the attacking vehicle is relative to the target MBT longitudinal axis – and this is a tactical matter. There are no belts or links to jam and break and the system is easily accessible from inside the turret – we expect vehicles equipped with the cannon to be more reliable on the battlefield and allow the soldier to spend more time achieving mission objectives. Warrior in the form it was purchased was a severe error: no stabilised main gun and no Chobham, Rarden itself was perfectly capable of killing all Soviet AFV’s aside from MBTs and associated specialty platforms. Christ that’s 1/4of a century gone and still not in service. The previously mentioned Sensor Fused ammo would be incredibly useful in this role being able to engage targets behind cover and in buildings far more effectively that standard HE and especially APFSDS. At this point, Lockheed Martin were still insisting an upgraded Warrior turret would be used for the WCSP vehicles. There was a marked difference , with the larger KETF round being something like 2,5 times as lethal/effective as the 30mm version. 2. son of = will step in the shoes of the cold war relic Our CT weapons and ammunition systems are offered in a 5.56 mm CT light machine gun (LMG), a 7.62 mm CT medium machine gun (MMG) and a 6.5 mm CT carbine. There are wider arguments about the concept of operation for armoured infantry and reconnaissance forces and their need for such a high performance, and expensive, weapon, but they are outside the scope of this document. – as I pointed out for BMP2, the 7th would need to dismount through the top hatch (the gun becomes inoperable until he’s gone!) As for the size and weight of the guns : On a lightweight, cheap troop carrier the addition of cannon armament makes it neither. “Looking further ahead, in 2012 BAE revealed a proposal for a new family of LAFVs in the 17 ton range, as potential international replacements for the CVR(T) family. While we consider that, we might also consider why armies still also buy APCs…. Sorry, slip of the mind. I’m fully aware that being correct in only 50% of the topics with my dissenting opinions would be a huge accomplishment (considering the odds). It would probably cost a bit less, but the chances of the job being done as efficiently or to the same quality as the specialist would achieve are slim indeed. @Gunbuster's, The special case of Israel having no IFVs was quoted. There was also some talk of a CT40 equipped Leclerc a few years ago, called the Leclerc T40, also proposed for the  Engin Blindé de Reconnaissance à Chenille (EBRC) programme. 21 posts • Page 1 of 1. 1. 5.4 casualty evacuation Without a breakthrough, I do not think that can be done, as the politicians have been scarred by the snatch Land Rover debacle. Rather than using a very high rate of fire, RAPIDFire is designed to fire fewer but more effective air bursting rounds at the target. France has also selected the CTAS 40 for use on their EBRC (Engin Blindé de Reconnaissance et de Combat) vehicles that will replace the AMX-10RC and Sagaie vehicles, using a common 2 man turret, the T40. – have you seen the cost figures? You could buy the whole fleet again ! Procurement of Cased Telescoped Cannons (CTC) Ammunition. In some ways, the German Panzer grenadiers are quite a sensible approach to the limiting factors of IFVs but you will note that they are not the entirety of the mechanised infantry strength. Or worse, splashing out on IFVs means you could end up short in other areas – the fur coat and no knickers problem. The 40mm Cased Telescoped Armament System (40 CTAS) provides a step change in capability, allowing the armed forces to respond to a changing environment with ongoing and emerging threats. plus have a significant boost on the anti-air side of things? Telescoped ammunition for the 40 mm Cased Telescoped Armament System (CTAS) by CTA International (right) 4.73×33mm telescoped and caseless ammunition, with cased ammunition for comparison Telescoped ammunition is an ammunition design in which the projectile is partially or completely enveloped by the propellant. In April 2001, a statement to the House of Parliament revealed that the future of the US FSCS was in doubt, describing how the new Future Combat System (FCS) vision as envisioned by General Shinseki in 1999 would need funding and some programmes would be cut to make room for it, one of these was the follow-on engineering development phase of FSCS/TRACER. MTIP and TOUTATIS, shown below, left and right. There is nothing to stop you putting the same remote mount on top of a turret though. @ Observer – “7:47-7:49 you see the control screen for the 76mm. Seeing the firings today gives us confidence that the Army will receive this battle-winning and transformational capability on time and to budget. By the end of 2011, Lockheed Martin had been selected by General Dynamics to provide the Scout SV turret and by the MoD to provide the WCSP turret, as part of the wider programme. A Royal Ordnance and GIAT 45mm Cased Telescoped Weapon System (CTWS) demonstrator was completed in 1991 with the prototype the following year. Tracked vehicles with full sections and manned medium calibre turrets are entirely possible and have been done on multiple occasions, admittedly some better the others (the CV90 and Ulan/Ascod being best of breed IMO). They are to harass, to scout and generally operate on the fringes of the formations, denying the enemy freedom of manoeuvre and intelligence. The real key to getting anywhere with this will be continued development. The US Army is looking into it for use with a light weight machinegun and the Brits ARE using it for their Warrior upgrade program. I won’t call it a missile defence gun. Calibres really depend on what you want to do. The Heckler & Koch G11 rifle in 4.7mm being the best known. A lighter 4×4 VBMR variant is also planned for delivery after 2021, replacing the PVP and VBL vehicles. Looking back, from the present, what has the CT40 gained us versus what it has cost us? – I mean publicly, internally the case had been made and the matter decided, “the wheeled platform to which it now intends to add a medium calibre gun” https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=mechanized infantry platoon&sa=X&rlz=1C1KYPA_enGB634GB634&espv=2&biw=751&bih=367&tbm=isch&imgil=926-adPioA876M%3A%3BZgIkGEZaZ0piCM%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fabramsgavin.deviantart.com%252Fart%252FDelano-Corsiba-Mechanized-Platoon-345686634&source=iu&pf=m&fir=926-adPioA876M%3A%2CZgIkGEZaZ0piCM%2C_&usg=__d5O9lGP7j7Qq0ZDxTqoxxUVuem0=&ved=0ahUKEwjMkM6-rN3JAhWCuhQKHf_YBvkQyjcILA&ei=3MFvVsyyEYL1Uv-xm8gP#imgrc=AsNC6-j02UhwlM:&usg=__d5O9lGP7j7Qq0ZDxTqoxxUVuem0=. This is less of a problem when you have follow up units with greater number of boot on the ground to actually hold that objective. The vehicle is part of the section, it fights with it as a coherent part of it, hence why someone stays in the vehicle.